As you can see on the official page, the episodes are numbered consecutively. So, they should be listed in the same season.

That's a quirk of plenty of anime series in Japan - literally all of them utilize absolute episode numbers even when split into seasons - and honestly, I think you know that. I don't know if you just don't want to take the five seconds to fix it or what. I also don't know why you're okay with TMDB being literally the only database with blatantly incorrect information for this show.

https://thetvdb.com/series/mononogatari#seasons

https://myanimelist.net/anime/50384/Mononogatari (Season 1)

https://myanimelist.net/anime/54883/Mononogatari_2nd_Season (Season 2)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt26140070/episodes

https://anidb.net/anime/16976 (Season 1)

https://anidb.net/anime/17958 (Season 2)

Literally EVERY SOURCE states this show has two seasons.

Oh, and if you want to go the "but the official website!" route:

https://monogatari-usa.com/ US official site - Look at the news articles, which specifically refer to the SEASON TWO Bluray release.

https://mononogatari-pr.com/onair/ Official site specifically refers to the show as being two chapters (Seasons are commonly referred to as chapters, don't die on that hill)

Even the OFFICIAL BROADCASTER lists is as being two chapters/seasons (you'll have to translate):

https://www.at-x.com/program/detail/16245

If you just don't want to do it, that's your call, but please don't insult us by acting like you're not doing it because it's accurate.

As indicated in our rules, as long as the episodes are numbered consecutively, they should be listed in one single season.

You ignored literally everything I said. So what, if 10 official sources list them in chapters but one random page lists them consecutively, that's set in stone? You're not even referencing an official episode listing, you're referencing a STORY OVERVIEW page. You're seriously a moderator? I really don't mean to be insulting, but I genuinely can't tell if you actually think this is logical or are just lazy.

I'd like to add that your "rules" state:

We strongly recommend using the official Japanese website. Databases such as anidb, MyAnimeList and Anime News Network, or trustworthy sources such as Syoboi can help you make informed decision, but they should be used with caution. And please keep in mind that every database has their own, unique guidelines.

Literally EVERY SINGLE ONE of those sources list it as two seasons, INCLUDING the official site. Here's the Syoboi: https://cal.syoboi.jp/tid/6747

I quote our rules (link given above) : "When a series is released in two or more parts, the new episodes should also be added to the same season when the episode number are continuous."

The episode numbers ARE NOT CONTINUOUS. You have linked a STORY OVERVIEW page that lists STORY ELEMENTS 1-15. There aren't even fifteen episodes OUT yet. You are continuously ignoring everything I am saying to conveniently stick to your script. I don't know if you're terrified of being wrong or what, but:

1) According to the sources in YOUR RULES, every single listed sources states the show is two seasons

2) THE OFFICIAL SITE lists the show as two seasons

3) You are listing a STORY OVERVIEW PAGE as some sort of EPISODE LIST - it's not!

Do you seriously not get this? Can I pull a karen and talk to your Manager or something? Like, who tells you when you're doing a bad job? They need to read this.

For Japanese anime, the Story page is the official episode list.

I have asked a second moderator to come, but you will have to wait.

What? No, the episode list is the episode list. That makes zero sense. It's a story overview, not an episode overview.

You're telling me you think the "Story Overview" page is more relevant to original broadcast ordering than the "Broadcast/Distribution" page? The story page has more accurate broadcast information than the ACTUAL BROADCAST page? Do you like, lose points if you have to backtrack a decision or something? It's not even that you're not willing to change it, it's that you're not willing to even admit that there's a chance the information you quoted may not have been the best source of "FINAL ABSOLUTE SOURCE".

Like, you could have said "You know what, let me look into this for a while and we'll make a decision, since you provided COUNTLESS sources of official conflicting information." That would have been great, I don't think there's anybody that wouldn't accept that.

@Extremity said:

That's a quirk of plenty of anime series in Japan - literally all of them utilize absolute episode numbers even when split into seasons - and honestly, I think you know that.

Not all anime. I've checked a few entries every season since the Fall 2021 season and some do restart their episode numbers with new sequel series/parts/"seasons".

I don't know if you just don't want to take the five seconds to fix it or what. I also don't know why you're okay with TMDB being literally the only database with blatantly incorrect information for this show.

We are OK with it because we have our own rules and the entry is following them.

@Extremity said:

You ignored literally everything I said. So what, if 10 official sources list them in chapters but one random page lists them consecutively, that's set in stone?

You only listed 1 official source (the official website) and yes, our decision is set in stone when that random page is the official episode list.

• TVDB and IMDB are user-contributed databases and should not be used as official sources but IMDB can be used with caution for older content that is no longer available.
• MAL and AniDB can be used to make "informed decisions" since they are anime-specific databases but should not be the primary source and should be used with caution.
• The US page you link to is for Monogatari not Mononogatari.
• The official website has sections for 第一章 and 第二章 on the 放送・配信 (On Air) page but please let me know where 第二章 appears on the ものがたり (story) section. New "seasons" usually get a new website or a separate section on the same website. This anime did not; in fact, all episodes are listed in the same website without any distinction.
• AT-X is not the official broadcaster, TOKYO MX and BS11 are. In my opinion, due to how anime airs multiple networks simultaneously, an anime's page on a broadcaster's website is not as important the anime's dedicated official website unless the official website is also the anime's page on the broadcaster's website.
• The Syoboi page lists it as a separate entry with the first episode being #13. According to our rules, it should be in a single season since it continues from the previous numbering.
• On TMDB, the official website is always king for everything. We always try to replicate how movies (specifically made for TV/streaming movies) and TV shows are listed on their official websites.

@Extremity said:

The episode numbers ARE NOT CONTINUOUS. You have linked a STORY OVERVIEW page that lists STORY ELEMENTS 1-15.

For this anime, the story section is the same as the list of episodes and this anime has continuous episode numbers for the second part.

@Extremity said:

What? No, the episode list is the episode list. That makes zero sense. It's a story overview, not an episode overview.

If you believe the ものがたり (story) section is not the official episode list, the please link to the section on the official website where the episode are listed in a sequential order from the first episode to the latest episode and usually have the episode numbers as well.

You're telling me you think the "Story Overview" page is more relevant to original broadcast ordering than the "Broadcast/Distribution" page?

Yes. The 放送・配信 (On Air) section has no information regarding episodes. It only lists where and when an anime is airing its episodes.

The story page has more accurate broadcast information than the ACTUAL BROADCAST page?

No one ever said this? The ものがたり (story) section is where the episodes and their episode number are listed but this section has no broadcast information. The broadcast information listed in the 放送・配信 (On Air) section.

Do you like, lose points if you have to backtrack a decision or something? It's not even that you're not willing to change it, it's that you're not willing to even admit that there's a chance the information you quoted may not have been the best source of "FINAL ABSOLUTE SOURCE".

We don't have any problem with being wrong once we're presented with information and evidence that we were wrong. I've been wrong before and will be again. But we can't just change everything on a whim just because users don't like how we list anime. We need actual evidence from an official source that these new episodes are a separate "season" that restarted the episode count. We are not going to change it just because MAL, AniDB, IMDB, and TVDB list it differently; they have their own rules and we have ours and it turns out theirs are different.

Like, you could have said "You know what, let me look into this for a while and we'll make a decision, since you provided COUNTLESS sources of official conflicting information." That would have been great, I don't think there's anybody that wouldn't accept that.

This was an easy check because this anime is currently airing so all it took was checking the episode section on official website to see how the episode are listed.

This anime is THE definition of split-cours (airing Jan.-Mar., break Apr.-Jun., and airing again Jul.-Sept.).

Anime generally don't have actual "seasons." Usually, the term "season" in anime can refer to either a sequel series, a new cours, a new part, or just a branding thing but it doesn't work the same way it does in the West. In all cases, how the episodes are listed on the official website, along with our anime-specific guidelines, determines how they're added on TMDB. Anime also have to abide by our regular TV guidelines and the first episode of a new season needs to start with episode #1.

You're right, one of my links was wrong - googling "mononogatari official site" shows that as the first result, and it looks so similar I didn't notice. My mistake.

Thank you for at least taking the time to respond with more than a line. I still think this is incorrect. If not from a "it breaks the rules" perspective, then from a "it's not logical" perspective - and I do think that should be considered at least sometimes. Rules are not perpetual, they bend and change as needs do, and this limitation is starting to feel archaic and - honestly - it seems to cause more issues as time goes on.

What's the policy on non-site communications from the studio? For instance, if they were to say on Twitter that the show is explicitly two separate seasons, would that make a difference?

I think the issue is the conflicting views on 1) the relevance of absolute episode numbers, and 2) rules that were created at a time when anime wasn't using them regardless of their seasonal structure. For instance, you follow the same policy for Bungo Stray Dogs - it has five seasons, the official site says as much, but their story page lists the episodes by their absolute number and thus there is only one season on here. Yet, as I said before, the official site itself constantly refers to the multiple seasons of the show. Here's one that's a good example of what I'm talking about:

"TV anime "Bungo Stray Dogs 5th Season" Episode 50-52 Pre-screening event with cast talk show will be held!!" https://bungosd.com/news/230622_01.html

I can find examples of this for almost all anime with multiple seasons now - that's the problem. It means two different things for you, and for them. For them, even when a series has multiple seasons there are always absolute episode numbers; it's just easier. "Naruto #53 airs tomorrow!" instantly gives you all the information needed, while saying "Naruto S03E05 airs tomorrow!" leaves people with literally no clue how far along the show actually is. Are there 10 episodes per season? 50?

So yes, from the purely technical perspective of a self-imposed restriction of "story page is definitive" (which I don't see in the rules, I only see that it goes by the official site, nothing specific to "story" sections, which leads me to believe ALL information on the site should be taken into consideration), then I guess it's how it is.

From a rational/logical perspective, and certainly not from the perspective of a TMDB mod, I'm sure you can understand what I'm saying; absolute numbers are just something that they use because they always have, they're always going to use them.

Whether you're going to change it or not is whatever, it's a huge inconvenience for those of us that use utilities based on your API because the entire anime community uses the S01/S02 format for the show and thus those utilities are forever broken for it, but that aside you've got to at least understand the point I'm making in regards to absolute ordering and you placing far too much emphasis on it.

Here is a perfect example for you - this is the official site for the anime Re:Zero, at its "story" page:

http://re-zero-anime.jp/tv/story/

They list each episode in absolute order. They also list the season with that absolute order. So which is right there? The official story page both shows absolute order numbers and lists the episodes as being in Season 1 and Season 2. Are both right? Neither?

I'm not sure if you're just ignoring this because I'm annoying or what, but I would love some insight regarding my previous reply (specifically the example at the bottom for re:zero) so I will better understand the policy in the future.

@Extremity said:

You're right, one of my links was wrong - googling "mononogatari official site" shows that as the first result, and it looks so similar I didn't notice. My mistake.

Thank you for at least taking the time to respond with more than a line. I still think this is incorrect. If not from a "it breaks the rules" perspective, then from a "it's not logical" perspective - and I do think that should be considered at least sometimes. Rules are not perpetual, they bend and change as needs do, and this limitation is starting to feel archaic and - honestly - it seems to cause more issues as time goes on.

I mean, the rule that is causing problems (first episode of a season is always "1") is part of the regular TV guidelines, which anime still need to follow, so it's very unlikely that it'll change.

What's the policy on non-site communications from the studio? For instance, if they were to say on Twitter that the show is explicitly two separate seasons, would that make a difference?

As far as I know, there isn't one. TMDB uses a TV show's official website and the information at the time of release. If an anime studio does say that on Twitter, the website would have to reflect that by having said episode be numbered as #1.

I think the issue is the conflicting views on 1) the relevance of absolute episode numbers, and 2) rules that were created at a time when anime wasn't using them regardless of their seasonal structure. For instance, you follow the same policy for Bungo Stray Dogs - it has five seasons, the official site says as much, but their story page lists the episodes by their absolute number and thus there is only one season on here. Yet, as I said before, the official site itself constantly refers to the multiple seasons of the show. Here's one that's a good example of what I'm talking about:

"TV anime "Bungo Stray Dogs 5th Season" Episode 50-52 Pre-screening event with cast talk show will be held!!" https://bungosd.com/news/230622_01.html

The way I understand the anime guidelines is that, unless it's a continuously airing anime like One Piece, new episodes should be approached as either a new cours or a sequel series, depending on how long the break between episodes is, and added accordingly to an entry based on the episode number they're given and our anime and TV guidelines.

I can find examples of this for almost all anime with multiple seasons now - that's the problem. It means two different things for you, and for them. For them, even when a series has multiple seasons there are always absolute episode numbers; it's just easier. "Naruto #53 airs tomorrow!" instantly gives you all the information needed, while saying "Naruto S03E05 airs tomorrow!" leaves people with literally no clue how far along the show actually is. Are there 10 episodes per season? 50?

I mean, I get your point that it's easier for viewers to understand but they (the studio) very likely have a reason to use absolute numbers instead of restarting from episode 1 aside from "it's easier." I check a few anime entries every new season and some of them don't use absolute numbers for new their new episode, they restart from episode 1 with no absolute number in sight.

So yes, from the purely technical perspective of a self-imposed restriction of "story page is definitive" (which I don't see in the rules, I only see that it goes by the official site, nothing specific to "story" sections, which leads me to believe ALL information on the site should be taken into consideration), then I guess it's how it is.

It's on the Episodes page of the TV section: "For recent TV series, the best source is often its official website. We try to mirror how the episodes were first released on the original network's website. When different, the data on the official website usually trumps press releases and TV listing info."

But lower in that same section it also says what I started this reply with, that the first episode of a season is always "1". Anime still need to follow the regular TV guidelines so to list new episodes as part of a new season, they need to restart from 1.

From a rational/logical perspective, and certainly not from the perspective of a TMDB mod, I'm sure you can understand what I'm saying; absolute numbers are just something that they use because they always have, they're always going to use them.

That's the thing, though; they don't always use them. As I mentioned in this same reply, I check a few anime entries every new season and there are some that don't use absolute numbers. For example, TONIKAWA, Mushoku Tensei, BOFURI, Uzaki-chan Wants to Hang Out!, Dr. Stone, and Demon Slayer all restarted from episode 1 for subsequent seasons.

Whether you're going to change it or not is whatever, it's a huge inconvenience for those of us that use utilities based on your API because the entire anime community uses the S01/S02 format for the show and thus those utilities are forever broken for it, but that aside you've got to at least understand the point I'm making in regards to absolute ordering and you placing far too much emphasis on it.

TMDB has episode groups available and anyone can create one for an entry and organize or group episodes in a different order. I don't understand how it works but I know that episode groups are available through the API.

Here is a perfect example for you - this is the official site for the anime Re:Zero, at its "story" page:

http://re-zero-anime.jp/tv/story/

They list each episode in absolute order. They also list the season with that absolute order. So which is right there? The official story page both shows absolute order numbers and lists the episodes as being in Season 1 and Season 2. Are both right? Neither?

It does show 新編集版 (which is the director's cut) and 2nd season when viewing a specific episode but there is nothing confusing about it since the same numbers are used in both places (the sidebar and episode itself). For example, on the episode itself, Episode 26 is listed as ‐ 2nd season　26話 ‐ but it can't be the 26th episode of the second season if it's the first episode. But there is also nothing that says that Episode 26 is the first episode of the second season unless you go though every episode individually and/or know the air dates, which are not listed on the website, to figure it out on your own or just look it up somewhere else.

Okay, I'm still trying to understand this because I keep finding things that don't seem to correlate to what's being said. Is it that exceptions or made that I'm not aware of? For example:

Hunter X Hunter (2011) TMDB, broken into three seasons:

https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/46298-hunter-x-hunter/seasons

Hunter X Hunter official site, all ordered 1 through 148:

https://www.ntv.co.jp/hunterhunter/story/

(click the red icon at the top-right of the image to get a full episode list):

https://www.ntv.co.jp/hunterhunter/story/backnumber.html

What am I missing?

Edit: Thank you for humoring me.

@Extremity said:

What am I missing?

You are missing the content reports on that entry, which indicate that it is on our list of anime where the seasons need to be merged. This merge will be done by the administrator at a later date, not yet defined.

"... part of the regular TV guidelines, which anime still need to follow..."

Why?