It's not the same version of the character as this episode is set in the past.

@raze464 said:

It's not the same version of the character as this episode is set in the past.

In that case, other characters (Sol, Indara and Kelnacca) are also "not the same version" in that episode.

It doesn't matter. It is the same person, it's not his ancestor or something. Ask anybody. Or are you suggesting that every time any show makes a time jump or a flashback, all involved characters should be duplicated? In that case, https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/60735-the-flash should have a separate version for each character Barry meets in the past or future. Notably, https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/4607-lost did a lot of flashbacks showing younger versions of the main characters, portrayed by the same actors. I don't see any additional characters. In https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/66732-stranger-things there are a ton of flashbacks with Eleven, yet somehow there's no separate version of the character, probably because it makes zero sense. https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/1100-how-i-met-your-mother is basically one big flashback, yet there's only one copy for each involved character. I wonder why?

The concept of using the same actors to portray the younger versions of their characters is quite common, but no one uses it as an excuse to create duplicate characters.

@shotfirer said:

In that case, other characters (Sol, Indara and Kelnacca) are also "not the same version" in that episode.

That's correct. But Master Indara and Master Kelnacca already hold the rank of Jedi Master in this episode. Sol is a Jedi Knight but he's currently added to the Regular Cast section so he can't be added as Knight Sol. It's the same as Leah and Lauren Brady's characters, "Little Mae" and "Little Osha," respectively, being younger versions of Amandla Stenberg's characters. Do you want to change the names of Leah and Lauren Brady's characters?

It doesn't matter. It is the same person, it's not his ancestor or something. Ask anybody. Or are you suggesting that every time any show makes a time jump or a flashback, all involved characters should be duplicated?

If there is a rank, job, or something else that is part of the primary version of the character's name like in The Acolyte that is not present in the past, present, or future versions, and the actors are added as guest stars, then yes. This is assuming the actors don't have an on-screen credit displaying their character's name.

In that case, https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/60735-the-flash should have a separate version for each character Barry meets in the past or future.

If they're guest stars and they are past or future versions of characters in the present, then go ahead. If it's someone that's only present the past or future, probably not. This is assuming the actors don't have an on-screen credit displaying their character's name.

Notably, https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/4607-lost did a lot of flashbacks showing younger versions of the main characters, portrayed by the same actors. I don't see any additional characters.

If the younger versions were portrayed by the members of the Regular Cast, then you don't see any additional characters because there's no way to credit for both versions, assuming the flashbacks with the younger versions don't happen in every episode of a given season.

In https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/66732-stranger-things there are a ton of flashbacks with Eleven, yet somehow there's no separate version of the character, probably because it makes zero sense.

If it's MIllie Bobby Brown in the Eleven flashbacks, she's a member of the Regular Cast so there's no way to credit her for the flashbacks in a given episode, assuming the flashbacks don't happen in every episode of a given season.

https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/1100-how-i-met-your-mother is basically one big flashback, yet there's only one copy for each involved character. I wonder why?

Because the past versions are the main versions. And Bob Saget is never credited for his voice role of Future Ted.

@raze464 said:

@shotfirer said:

In that case, other characters (Sol, Indara and Kelnacca) are also "not the same version" in that episode.

That's correct. But Master Indara and Master Kelnacca already hold the rank of Jedi Master in this episode. Sol is a Jedi Knight but he's currently added to the Regular Cast section so he can't be added as Knight Sol. It's the same as Leah and Lauren Brady's characters, "Little Mae" and "Little Osha," respectively, being younger versions of Amandla Stenberg's characters. Do you want to change the names of Leah and Lauren Brady's characters?

Why would I want that? This is exactly how they were credited on-screen in ep. 1. As long as you are not planning to add a separate copy of their characters for each episode they appear in, "Little Mae/Osha" works just fine.

It doesn't matter. It is the same person, it's not his ancestor or something. Ask anybody. Or are you suggesting that every time any show makes a time jump or a flashback, all involved characters should be duplicated?

If there is a rank, job, or something else that is part of the primary version of the character's name like in The Acolyte that is not present in the past, present, or future versions, and the actors are added as guest stars, then yes. This is assuming the actors don't have an on-screen credit displaying their character's name.

Did you just made that up? Certainly sounds like that. Unnecessary overly complicated, I noticed that being your M.O. Can you refer me to any bible rule supporting that idea?

You make it sound like someone is forcing you to include "Master" or especially "Padawan" in the name. So on one hand, it is fine to omit the rank in the names of Yord and Jecki, but suddenly it is so important that it requires creating a duplicate entry for the Torbin character, just to keep his rank. I'm sorry, it looks totally random. Torbin from ep. 2 and Torbin from ep. 3 are the same character at different points of time. Same as the other adult characters, who appeared in that episode. Sol is the same Sol, and Indara is the same Indara. Kelnacca even looks exactly the same. They are "younger", but still the same people. And he is the same Torbin, by all means. Aside from that, Dean-Charles Chapman is credited as Starring, in the exact same way as Amandla Stenberg or Lee Jung-jae, and while the season has not ended and the amount of his appearances is unknown, so far there was no reason to remove him from the regulars and move to guest stars. But that can be re-assessed after the season finale.

In that case, https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/60735-the-flash should have a separate version for each character Barry meets in the past or future.

If they're guest stars and they are past or future versions of characters in the present, then go ahead. If it's someone that's only present the past or future, probably not. This is assuming the actors don't have an on-screen credit displaying their character's name.

Again, it is unnecessary and overly complicated. And highly subjective. From the data point of view it adds zero value, but a ton of confusion. Unless the character is specifically credited as a separate entity, keeping the same character entry for all occurrences is the most logical way.

https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/1100-how-i-met-your-mother is basically one big flashback, yet there's only one copy for each involved character. I wonder why?

Because the past versions are the main versions. And Bob Saget is never credited for his voice role of Future Ted.

So far Dean-Charles Chapman has never been credited as "Master Torbin" or "Padawan Torbin", or anything else. I.e. nothing prevents from crediting him simply as "Torbin" in both episodes and avoiding the duplicity. The same is also true for the other characters. As simple as that. But for some reason, you prefer to make it complicated.

@shotfirer said:

Why would I want that? This is exactly how they were credited on-screen in ep. 1. As long as you are not planning to add a separate copy of their characters for each episode they appear in, "Little Mae/Osha" works just fine.

Because they're the same characters as the ones that Amandla Stenberg portrays. Seems like you're OK with Leah and Lauren Brady's characters being named differently than Amandla Stenberg's characters but the same is not for Dean-Charles Chapman for some reason. Does that not go against the point you're trying to make that Padawan Torbin is still the same character as Master Torbin and shouldn't be separated? Little Mae and Little Osha are still the same characters as Mae and Osha Aniseya.

Did you just made that up? Certainly sounds like that. Unnecessary overly complicated, I noticed that being your M.O. Can you refer me to any bible rule supporting that idea?

If a character has a rank, job, or something else as part of their name, why would you want to remove it? It's part of the character's name.

You make it sound like someone is forcing you to include "Master" or especially "Padawan" in the name.

Yes, the official character names as they appear in the official production brief for the series.

So on one hand, it is fine to omit the rank in the names of Yord and Jecki, but suddenly it is so important that it requires creating a duplicate entry for the Torbin character, just to keep his rank.

Yord and Jecki do not have a rank or anything else as part of their character names, neither does Kelnacca by the looks of it so that will be fixed after this reply. From the official production brief for the series:

The show features a whole new slate of Jedi, including Lee Jung-jae as Master Sol, Carrie-Anne Moss as Master Indara, Dafne Keen as Jecki, Charlie Barnett as Yord, Dean-Charles Chapman as Master Torbin and Joonas Suotamo as Kelnacca, the first Wookiee Jedi in live-action. Rebecca Henderson is tasked with bringing fan-favorite Master Vernestra Rwoh from the “The High Republic” novels to life.

Sol is the same Sol, and Indara is the same Indara. [...] And he is the same Torbin, by all means.

Ok, but their rank is part of their character's names. Torbin can't be a Master when he was a Padawan, especially in what is essentially a flashback episode.

Again, it is unnecessary and overly complicated. And highly subjective. From the data point of view it adds zero value, but a ton of confusion. Unless the character is specifically credited as a separate entity, keeping the same character entry for all occurrences is the most logical way.

Then why did you suggest it?

So far Dean-Charles Chapman has never been credited as "Master Torbin" [...] The same is also true for the other characters. As simple as that.

The character names in the official production brief say otherwise.

@raze464 said:

@shotfirer said:

Why would I want that? This is exactly how they were credited on-screen in ep. 1. As long as you are not planning to add a separate copy of their characters for each episode they appear in, "Little Mae/Osha" works just fine.

Because they're the same characters as the ones that Amandla Stenberg portrays. Seems like you're OK with Leah and Lauren Brady's characters being named differently than Amandla Stenberg's characters but the same is not for Dean-Charles Chapman for some reason. Does that not go against the point you're trying to make that Padawan Torbin is still the same character as Master Torbin and shouldn't be separated? Little Mae and Little Osha are still the same characters as Mae and Osha Aniseya.

OMG, this is ridiculous. First of all "Little Mae and Little Osha" credited that way on-screen, period. Second, they are portrayed by the different actors. If "Padawan Torbin" was portrayed by a different actor it would've been okay to have Chapman as "Master Torbin" and somebody else as "Padawan Torbin". But since it's the same actor - it's the same character, and according to the bible, the existing spelling of the name should be used. Since you're insisting that "Master Torbin" is an official spelling of the name - use it for all appearances of the character.

If a character has a rank, job, or something else as part of their name, why would you want to remove it? It's part of the character's name.

Says who? Is that the official TMDb rule? Where can I see it?

A name is a name, a rank is a rank. When the character's rank changes during the show, it does not become a different character. https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/60802-the-last-ship is a good example, where most of the main characters were promoted several times during the show's run, changing their rank within and between the seasons. Yet they all are listed once. You don't have separate "Commander Tom Chandler", "Captain Tom Chandler", "Admiral Tom Chandler". You have only one Tom Chandler. BTW, feel free to strip the rank from his name completely, because the existing one is not correct for all seasons. This is quite common for long-running shows, but no one creates a new character when an existing one is being promoted or demoted. Unless they blindly copy the names from IMDb for example.

Yes, the official character names as they appear in the official production brief for the series.

The show features a whole new slate of Jedi, including Lee Jung-jae as Master Sol, Carrie-Anne Moss as Master Indara, Dafne Keen as Jecki, Charlie Barnett as Yord, Dean-Charles Chapman as Master Torbin and Joonas Suotamo as Kelnacca, the first Wookiee Jedi in live-action. Rebecca Henderson is tasked with bringing fan-favorite Master Vernestra Rwoh from the “The High Republic” novels to life.

There's no mention of "Padawan Torbin" in that brief, so it's not an official name. Also, there's no mention of Osha, and Stenberg is listed simply as "Mae Aniseya". So "fix" that as well, while you're at it.

Again, it is unnecessary and overly complicated. And highly subjective. From the data point of view it adds zero value, but a ton of confusion. Unless the character is specifically credited as a separate entity, keeping the same character entry for all occurrences is the most logical way.

Then why did you suggest it?

LOL Suggest what? I'm suggesting keeping it simple. You're inventing your own rules.

So far Dean-Charles Chapman has never been credited as "Master Torbin" [...] The same is also true for the other characters. As simple as that.

The character names in the official production brief say otherwise.

Ok, then show me "Padawan Torbin" in the production brief. Show me "Mae-ho 'Mae' Aniseya / Verosha 'Osha' Aniseya" in the production brief. You contradicting yourself. Either stick to the production brief to a "T", or don't wave it like a flag.

Here are a few names from the same source where this production brief originates (Disney Studios press office), as official as it gets.

https://dam.gettyimages.com/thewaltdisneystudios/allaccess/#!asset/nrmzbk8x3chbgf77rp8b9gkx

Jedi Master Kelnacca (Joonas Suotamo) in Lucasfilm's THE ACOLYTE, season one, exclusively on Disney+. ©2024 Lucasfilm Ltd. & TM. All Rights Reserved.

https://dam.gettyimages.com/thewaltdisneystudios/allaccess/#!asset/w54ss3gmgm3w7qkcx4cqs9z

Yord Fandar (Charlie Barnett) and Jedi Padawan Jecki Lon (Dafne Keen) in Lucasfilm's THE ACOLYTE, season one, exclusively on Disney+. ©2024 Lucasfilm Ltd. & TM. All Rights Reserved.

https://dam.gettyimages.com/thewaltdisneystudios/allaccess/#!asset/kkfzb9vrwsgbvgvp5mmfv9cw

Vernestra Rwoh (Rebecca Henderson) in Lucasfilm's THE ACOLYTE, season one, exclusively on Disney+. ©2024 Lucasfilm Ltd. & TM. All Rights Reserved.

No "Master".

So consistency is not their strong side.

@shotfirer said:

OMG, this is ridiculous. First of all "Little Mae and Little Osha" credited that way on-screen, period.

And they're the same characters as the ones Amandla Stenberg portrays, just different time periods. Different names are OK when the name is on-screen but not OK when it's not?

Second, they are portrayed by the different actors. If "Padawan Torbin" was portrayed by a different actor it would've been okay to have Chapman as "Master Torbin" and somebody else as "Padawan Torbin".

So it's also OK when it's a different actor but not OK when it's the same actor?

It's not. A name is a name, a rank is a rank.

So when "The Batman" credited Jeffrey Wright as "Lt. James Gordon," or "Star Trek: Discovery" credited Emily Coutts as "Keyla Detmer", then "Lt. Keyla Detmer," and then "Lt. Cmdr. Keyla Detmer," or even episode 4 of the very show where, for example, Derek Arnold is credited as "Master Ki-Adi-Mundi," is the rank not part of the names of these characters in your eyes?

When the rank of the character changes during the course of the show, it does not become a different character. https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/60802-the-last-ship is a good example, where most of the main characters were promoted several times during the show's run, changing their rank within and between the seasons. Yet they all are listed once.

Was the rank part of their official character names?

There's no mention of "Padawan Torbin" in that brief, so it's not an official name.

That's correct. But it stands to reason to any normal person that the Torbin that appeared in the episode is not Master Torbin as it's a younger version of the character as he is a Padawan.

Also, there's no mention of Osha, and Stenberg is listed simply as "Mae Aniseya". So "fix" that as well, while you're at it.

That's also correct as Osha being a main character and Amandla Stenberg having a dual role in the show was not public knowledge up until the show released.

LOL Suggest what? I'm suggesting keeping it simple. You're inventing your own rules.

Did you forget you suggested it?

@shotfirer said:

In that case, https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/60735-the-flash should have a separate version for each character Barry meets in the past or future.

Ok, then show me "Padawan Torbin" in the production brief.

I can't because the production brief only has the main characters from the "now" time and Padawan Torbin so far only appears in episode 3 as it is set in the past.

Show me "Mae-ho 'Mae' Aniseya / Verosha 'Osha' Aniseya" in the production brief.

I can't because Osha was not publicly known to be a character in the show until it premiered.

Here are a few names from the same source (Disney Studios press site). As official as it gets. https://dam.gettyimages.com/thewaltdisneystudios/allaccess/#!asset/nrmzbk8x3chbgf77rp8b9gkx

Jedi Master Kelnacca (Joonas Suotamo) in Lucasfilm's THE ACOLYTE, season one, exclusively on Disney+. ©2024 Lucasfilm Ltd. & TM. All Rights Reserved.

https://dam.gettyimages.com/thewaltdisneystudios/allaccess/#!asset/w54ss3gmgm3w7qkcx4cqs9z

Yord Fandar (Charlie Barnett) and Jedi Padawan Jecki Lon (Dafne Keen) in Lucasfilm's THE ACOLYTE, season one, exclusively on Disney+. ©2024 Lucasfilm Ltd. & TM. All Rights Reserved.

https://dam.gettyimages.com/thewaltdisneystudios/allaccess/#!asset/kkfzb9vrwsgbvgvp5mmfv9cw

Vernestra Rwoh (Rebecca Henderson) in Lucasfilm's THE ACOLYTE, season one, exclusively on Disney+. ©2024 Lucasfilm Ltd. & TM. All Rights Reserved.

No "Master".

So consistency is not their strong side.

That's not the same source as those are episode stills with captions from a press website; I linked to a PDF. But feel free to change the character names for Joonas Suotamo, Dafne Keen, and Rebecca Henderson to whatever you think is correct if you want to.

@raze464 said: And they're the same characters as the ones Amandla Stenberg portrays, just different time periods. Different names are OK when the name is on-screen but not OK when it's not?

Well, you tell me. You're the one here who always forces the use of on-screen credits above everything else. Regardless of how that works in the context of the show. Shall I remind you what you did with Star Trek: Discovery? I will, further down.

So it's also OK when it's a different actor but not OK when it's the same actor? Yes. Exactly. They might be the same person in the story, but they are separate character entries in the TMDB credits, individual pairs of actor/character. They may have the same character name or different names - it doesn't matter. They will stay separate anyway, and there's nothing you can do about that. Technically, it is impossible to have the Brady sisters and Stenberg share the same character entry. However, "Master Torbin" and "Padawan Torbin" are the same person both on- and off-screen, and should not have separate character entries. They are not two different Torbins.

It's not. A name is a name, a rank is a rank.

So when "The Batman" credited Jeffrey Wright as "Lt. James Gordon," or "Star Trek: Discovery" credited Emily Coutts as "Keyla Detmer", then "Lt. Keyla Detmer," and then "Lt. Cmdr. Keyla Detmer," or even episode 4 of the very show where, for example, Derek Arnold is credited as "Master Ki-Adi-Mundi," is the rank not part of the names of these characters in your eyes?

Does that make them a different character though? Is "Keyla Detmer" not the same character as "Lt. Keyla Detmer" or "Lt. Cmdr. Keyla Detmer"? If so, then why do we have only one character "Keyla Detmer"? Where's the rest of them? And how "Master Torbin" vs "Padawan Torbin" is different from "Keyla Detmer" vs "Lt. Keyla Detmer"? Either they are separate characters or the same character "at different times" or whatever.

When the rank of the character changes during the course of the show, it does not become a different character. https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/60802-the-last-ship is a good example, where most of the main characters were promoted several times during the show's run, changing their rank within and between the seasons. Yet they all are listed once.

Was the rank part of their official character names?

Obviously, I don't remember, but it's easy to check. But what does it matter? Their rank changed within the story. "Padawan" is not part of the official character name, yet you're using it anyway, because this rank appears within the story. So you're strict on using only the official name in one case but ok with bending that whenever it doesn't fit the story? What's more important, you're definitely not ok when someone else is doing the same, "fixing" the edits and whatnot. So I don't see why you should be any different and free from abiding by the same rules you're forcing upon everyone else. I'm 100% sure that if someone else did make those two separate "Master" and "Padawan" characters, you would immediately revert that because only "Master" is the official name. What makes me sure? I've experienced that many times in other shows I contribute to.

There's no mention of "Padawan Torbin" in that brief, so it's not an official name.

That's correct. But it stands to reason to any normal person that the Torbin that appeared in the episode is not Master Torbin as it's a younger version of the character as he is a Padawan.

And Master Inara is a younger version of Master Inara from the first episode. Shall we credit her "Younger Master Inara"? You're ok with stripping the rank from Kelnacca's name, despite that he's undoubtedly a Jedi Master, so I don't see why Torbin should be any different. You need to make up your mind about what's more important - strictly follow whatever official source you can find (in that case it doesn't matter if Torbin is not a Master yet in ep. 3, officially the character's name is "Master Torbin" for the entire show since the production brief covers the entire show, not a specific episode) or follow the story (in which case all characters should have the names which makes the most sense, regardless of "official" spelling).

In Star Trek: Discovery, Ronnie Rowe appeared as "Shuttle Pilot" only once in his 39 appearances, yet he is credited like that for the rest of the show. It stands to reason to any normal person that his character should have a name given to him for the rest of 38 episodes. But no. So I don't see what is "reason" has to do with anything here. You have an official character name, and you stick to it, the same way you force that in other shows, regardless of whether it fits all episodes or all character's appearances. If Ronnie Rowe can be credited as "Shuttle Pilot" in 38 episodes where he doesn't pilot any shuttles, I don't see why Chandler can't be credited as "Master Torbin" in the episode where he's not a Jedi Master. Or simply as "Torbin" which would be 100% correct, but not "official". Your choice. Either way is fine by me.

That's not the same source as those are episode stills with captions from a press website; I linked to a PDF. But feel free to change the character names for Joonas Suotamo, Dafne Keen, and Rebecca Henderson to whatever you think is correct if you want to.

The PDF is shared on the same website, i.e. it comes from the same source https://dam.gettyimages.com/thewaltdisneystudios/allaccess/#!asset/cfbb67xmwfbh74fst5h84hvb

Where does it say that PDF have precedence over the official captions for example? The bible says "information from the official website or production company/studio". Any information. The captions are the same piece of information as the content of the production brief. One might say they are even better because they are more recent. But by all means, they have the same status as the official information.

@shotfirer said:

Does that make them a different character though?

Technically, yes.

Is "Keyla Detmer" not the same character as "Lt. Keyla Detmer" or "Lt. Cmdr. Keyla Detmer"?

Technically, no.

If so, then why do we have only one character "Keyla Detmer"? Where's the rest of them?

You tell me, you merged the different credits into a single one.

And how "Master Torbin" vs "Padawan Torbin" is different from "Keyla Detmer" vs "Lt. Keyla Detmer"?

"Padawan Torbin" is the past version of "Master Torbin" before he was a Master and appearing in only one episode so far. "Keyla Detmer" and "Lt. Keyla Detmer" are both the present version of an actor whose official character name changed over the course of the show: "Keyla Detmer" in season 1, "Lt. Keyla Detmer" in seasons 2 and 3, and "Lt. Cmdr. Keyla Detmer" in seasons 4 and 5.

The merged credit you did was fine but you didn't like that the it was renamed to "Lt./Lt. Cmdr. Keyla Detmer," encompassing all of Emily Coutts' credited character names. IIRC, you said it made no sense to name the character like that.

Either they are separate characters or the same character "at different times" or whatever.

The same character at the different points in time can be played by the same actor. Claire Foy is credited in seasons 4 and 5 of The Crown as a young version of Queen Elizabeth II, the character she previously portrayed in seasons 1 and 2, who is now being played by different actresses in those seasons (Olivia Colman in season 4 and Imelda Staunton in season 5). Are those young versions of Queen Elizabeth II in seasons 4 and 5 not different characters in your eyes despite being portrayed by the same actress that previously portrayed the present version of said character?

"Padawan" is not part of the official character name

I suppose that means that "Master" is not part of the name of Paul Bullion, Indra Ové, or Derek Arnold's characters in episode 4 despite it appearing in the on-screen credits, either.

And Master Inara is a younger version of Master Inara from the first episode. Shall we credit her "Younger Master Inara"?

If you want to change it, go ahead.

In Star Trek: Discovery, Ronnie Rowe appeared as "Shuttle Pilot" only once in his 39 appearances, yet he is credited like that for the rest of the show. It stands to reason to any normal person that his character should have a name given to him for the rest of 38 episodes.

I would've left him with his 5 credited characters but you merged 3 of them in to a single one and didn't like that it was renamed to "Lt./Lt. Cmdr. R.A. Bryce" since that encompases Ronnie Rowe's season 1 named appearance of "Bryce," his seasons 2 and 3 name of "Lt. R.A. Bryce," and seasons 4 and 5 name of "Lt. Cmdr. R.A. Bryce." IIRC, you said it made no sense to name the character like that.

Where does it say that PDF have precedence over the official captions for example?

Did I say anything remotely close to that? You said the same source we both used was the Disney Studios press site and I said the source I used, the production brief, was a PDF. Images available on a press site are obviously not the same thing as a PDF. I never mentioned anything about precedence.

@raze464 said:

@shotfirer said:

Does that make them a different character though?

Technically, yes.

Technically, the bible acknowledges that "the character name credited on-screen may vary from one episode to the next" and does not say that a new name should be treated as a new character. On the contrary, it suggests merging them as one character entry regardless of the name changes, to avoid confusion. It has been previously confirmed by other mod that this is indeed the intended use of that rule, in that thread. So it seems that it is just your opinion.

Is "Keyla Detmer" not the same character as "Lt. Keyla Detmer" or "Lt. Cmdr. Keyla Detmer"?

Technically, no.

The bible disagrees with you. "While the character name credited on-screen may vary from one episode to the next, it's important to always use the exact same spelling for character names." The change of the name is just a change of the name. It's still the same character, just credited differently on-screen.

If so, then why do we have only one character "Keyla Detmer"? Where's the rest of them?

You tell me, you merged the different credits into a single one.

Yes, following the same bible rule mentioned above. It's weird seeing this attitude from a moderator, who is supposed to encourage following the contribution bible in the edits, not smirk at that.

"Padawan Torbin" is the past version of "Master Torbin" before he was a Master and appearing in only one episode so far. "Keyla Detmer" and "Lt. Keyla Detmer" are both the present version of an actor whose official character name changed over the course of the show: "Keyla Detmer" in season 1, "Lt. Keyla Detmer" in seasons 2 and 3, and "Lt. Cmdr. Keyla Detmer" in seasons 4 and 5.

Master Torbin also appeared only in one episode. What does it matter anyway? What would've changed if either of them appeared more than once? Anyway, it may be "the past" from the story's point of view, but by the broadcast order, it is the same "name changed over the course of the show" as with the Detmer character because it happens in the episode broadcasted later.

The merged credit you did was fine but you didn't like that the it was renamed to "Lt./Lt. Cmdr. Keyla Detmer," encompassing all of Emily Coutts' credited character names. IIRC, you said it made no sense to name the character like that.

Because this "encompassing" exists just in your imagination. There's no "encompassing" in the rules. The bible suggests using the existing spelling and leaving the forward slash only to separate different characters. It would've been okay if she was credited this way on-screen, but since she was not, it is not okay. In any case, "Keyla Detmer" is technically correct for every appearance, because her first and last name never changed. So in my opinion, listing all of them just by the first/last name was the most logical way.

The same character at the different points in time can be played by the same actor. Claire Foy is credited in seasons 4 and 5 of The Crown as a young version of Queen Elizabeth II, the character she previously portrayed in seasons 1 and 2, who is now being played by different actresses in those seasons (Olivia Colman in season 4 and Imelda Staunton in season 5). Are those young versions of Queen Elizabeth II in seasons 4 and 5 not different characters in your eyes despite being portrayed by the same actress that previously portrayed the present version of said character?

No, they are not. In my eyes, they are the same Queen Elizabeth II we saw in season 1. Looking the same, portrayed by the same actress. The show has 3 actresses representing 3 ages of the same person. But each of these actresses implements only one character (of a particular age range), which may or may not appear simultaneously with the other two. Formally there should be only 1 character entry for each actress in the show credits on TMDB (except voice-only appearances). In any case, regardless of my personal opinion on the matter, according to the same bible rule mentioned above Claire Foy should be credited the same way for each appearance, using the existing spelling from Season 1, regardless of how she's credited on-screen.

"Padawan" is not part of the official character name

I suppose that means that "Master" is not part of the name of Paul Bullion, Indra Ové, or Derek Arnold's characters in episode 4 despite it appearing in the on-screen credits, either.

Of course not. In that case, it means only that there's no official "Padawan Torbin" character name.

And Master Inara is a younger version of Master Inara from the first episode. Shall we credit her "Younger Master Inara"?

If you want to change it, go ahead.

LOL, thank you, but no. So far you're the only one who considers "the past versions" a different character. I don't, so I don't see any reason to do that.

In Star Trek: Discovery, Ronnie Rowe [...]

I would've left him with his 5 credited characters but you merged 3 of them in to a single one and didn't like that it was renamed to "Lt./Lt. Cmdr. R.A. Bryce" since that encompases Ronnie Rowe's season 1 named appearance of "Bryce," his seasons 2 and 3 name of "Lt. R.A. Bryce," and seasons 4 and 5 name of "Lt. Cmdr. R.A. Bryce." IIRC, you said it made no sense to name the character like that.

Again, the same bible rule is the reason I merged them. However, I merged them as "R.A. Bryce", because of that "stands to reason" thingie you mentioned earlier. Yes, it's not strictly by the rules, but it makes sense for 38 out of 39 episodes where he appeared. His current "Shuttle pilot" character name makes sense for exactly 1 episode out of 39, so technically it's 2% correct. My point is, while it is strictly by the book, it is far from "standing to reason", and clearly not a best choice.

Did I say anything remotely close to that? You said the same source we both used was the Disney Studios press site and I said the source I used, the production brief, was a PDF. Images available on a press site are obviously not the same thing as a PDF. I never mentioned anything about precedence.

In my understanding, you're implying that somehow PDF is a better source of information than image captions, despite both being issued by the same source. I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. So just to confirm - the information in PDF and in image captions (or any other place on the official website or press site) is equally trustworthy and each can be referred to as "official"?

Did you came to a conclusion?