Item: Fraulein - Ein deutsches Melodram
Language: en-US
Type of Problem: Incorrect_content
Extra Details: Can a mod please unlock the title fields here so I can add an English title? Thanks.
Can't find a movie or TV show? Login to create it.
Want to rate or add this item to a list?
Not a member?
Reply by Samara
on February 16, 2021 at 5:17 PM
Is there any official english title, I can't find one?
Reply by RNL
on February 17, 2021 at 5:59 AM
The English subtitles on my copy give the title as "Fraulein: A German Melodrama," and most English-language sources (in overviews of Haneke's work, etc.) give the title as just "Fraulein."
Reply by RNL
on February 17, 2021 at 6:05 AM
https://imgur.com/xYXIEvh
Reply by Samara
on February 17, 2021 at 6:05 AM
You have the movie with english subtitles ? I really cannot confirm this but I open the field now
Reply by RNL
on February 17, 2021 at 6:13 AM
I do - see the imgur link above for a screenshot.
And here's a page view of the filmography section from "A Companion to Michael Haneke" - https://imgur.com/1t14YXn
Thanks.
Reply by janar
on February 17, 2021 at 9:28 AM
In my opinion, this English title based on the English subtitles is wrong. It should be locked blank instead.
Short explanation why:
1.) It seems the original German title was "Fraulein" -> not "Fraulein - Ein deutsches Melodram." According to this database:
https://www.filmportal.de/en/movie/fraulein_ea43d4a7022c5006e03053d50b37753d
the first German broadcast was on network ARD, April 6, 1986. This database lists the original title as "Fräulein" (with ä) - but I think that's also wrong -> it should be "Fraulein" (with a). Because:
At the Austrian Filmmuseum, there's a Collection Michael Haneke that provides several documents (objects) in regards to this film:
https://haneke.filmmuseum.at/jart/prj3/filmmuseum-sammlung/main.jart?rel=haneke_en&reserve-mode=active&content-id=1476708993927&s-text=Fraulein
They collected 7 different objects: newspaper articles and reviews, an annotated screenplay, and even a letter in regards to the film title. If you read around, you'll see that the original German title is not conclusive - to make a final decision, I guess someone has to read the full physical documents at the museum. But:
One of the documents is an advertising magazine by network ARD called "ARD Magazin, 02/86" -> this was published in April 1986. A copy of this magazine is currently offered online on ebay and there's a note that on the cover of the magazine it's Angelica Domröse in "FRAULEIN." This is not conclusive evidence, but to me it seems that's the original title from April 1986. (Again, I guess someone has to read the whole article in this magazine to find out the original title.)
2.) The long German title "Fraulein - Ein deutsches Melodram" does actually exist -> here's a screenshot of the title:
https://pics.imcdb.org/26849/filmtitle.112.jpg
I assume this long title is either from a later screening, or it is the title plus subtitle that's different from the advertising of the movie in 1986. At Zurich University, there's a DVD with this long title. But this DVD is a copy from a broadcast on network 3sat on June 4, 2001 -> and I think that's the source for the screenshot above. Also, it seems the same DVD is part of the Haneke Collection at the Austrian Filmmuseum. The main question is: are there differences between this broadcast from 2001 and the earlier broadcast from 1986 in regards to the main German title.
My conclusion for points 1.) and 2.) -> Based on the material I find online, the original German title for this film here on TMDb should be "Fraulein," while "Fraulein - Ein deutsches Melodram" seems to be an alternative title (main title plus subtitle).
3.) In regards to the English title -> the film was screened at the International Film Festival Rotterdam in 1993, apparently under the English title "Fraulein":
https://iffr.com/en/1993/films/fraulein
And it was screened again at the MoMA in New York in 2007 at a Haneke retrospective:
https://www.moma.org/calendar/film/561
According to the official press release from 2007, which also notes that this is the North American premiere of the film, the English title is "Fraulein":
http://press.moma.org/wp-content/press-archives/film_archive/Haneke_REL_and_SCH.pdf
There's a blog review of this screening in 2007 online - and the reviewer states:
"The other TV film of Haneke I saw yesterday was not as good. Fraulein with the subtitle "A German Melodrama" looked at best a sub-Fassbinder work."
I agree with this reviewer -> "Fraulein" is the title, "A German Melodrama" is the subtitle. The reviewer also links to another screening at Harvard University in 2007; the document is still available archived:
https://web.archive.org/web/20180607174344/http://hcl.harvard.edu/hfa/films/2007fall/haneke.html
Here, the English title is given as "Fraulein: A German Melodrama," but only "Fraulein" is used in the description that follows. Meaning, in my opinion, this is the main title plus the subtitle.
My conclusion for point 3.) -> Based on the material I find online, the English title for this film is the same as the German title, "Fraulein." That's why the English title field should be locked blank here on TMDb. "Fraulein: A German Melodrama" should be added as an alternative title instead.
Reply by RNL
on February 17, 2021 at 10:01 AM
It's true, most English-language sources give the title as just "Fraulein," so if the German title is changed then of course the English title can be locked blank. But as long as the German title is locked with the subtitle, the English title should be one of either "Fraulein" or "Fraulein: A German Melodrama."
Reply by RNL
on February 17, 2021 at 11:04 PM
I'll change the English title to "Fraulein" for now and add the longer title as an AKA, and if the German title gets changed then the English title field can be blanked again.
Reply by janar
on February 18, 2021 at 2:43 AM
@RNL wrote:
I'm going to change the original German title after I finish this reply. Almost all newspaper articles that I can find online via GENIOS use the short German title "Fraulein." One article from 2009 that was published in the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung explicitly states that this is a main title with a subtitle:
"[...] Denn wie dieser erzählt auch "Fraulein" von deutscher Geschichte in Schwarzweiß, und sein Untertitel "Ein deutsches Melodram" [...] lässt ihn endgültig als dessen Pendant wirken: "Fraulein" ist Antwort und Antithese zu Fassbinders Nachkriegsfrauengeschichten."
Also, only the short title was used in a tv schedule in the newspaper Die Welt when the film was re-broadcast in 2001 at network 3sat (by the way, the correct date is July 4th, 2001 - not June 4th, 2001 as stated in the document by Zurich University):
file:///C:/Users/lhasa/AppData/Local/Temp/ePaper_WELT_DWBE-HP_04.07.2001_Multimedia_33.pdf
In my opinion, that's enough evidence to use the short title.
Reply by janar
on February 18, 2021 at 3:42 AM
So, I added all the data that I could find and that I know of, but now the year after the title says "2007," which is obviously wrong because it's from 1986. That's because of TMDb's criteria for the primary release date in the Contribution Bible:
https://www.themoviedb.org/bible/movie/59f3b16d9251414f20000009#5a0b2152925141656100000d
Apparently, since a premiere is more important than a tv release, this causes the display of the wrong year for this film. Removing all premieres would solve the display problem, but the data is still correct. I'm not sure what to do now?!?
Reply by RNL
on February 18, 2021 at 4:25 AM
Would it be okay to change the release type for the festival showing to "theatrical (limited)"?
Reply by janar
on February 18, 2021 at 5:46 AM
@RNL wrote:
This wouldn't change the display of the year 2007 -> a limited theatrical release is even more important than a premiere. Right now, the only way to display the year 1986 is to remove all the premiere screenings. And I'm not sure that's a good idea. Because the TMDb data itself is provided for other clients like Letterboxd, Trakt and many others - so I shouldn't manipulate the data because of how it is displayed here on the TMDb website. On the other hand, I'm not sure they handle things differently...
Sorry, I think we have to wait for another opinion by another moderator - maybe there's a solution that I don't know of?!?
Reply by RNL
on February 18, 2021 at 7:50 AM
I know Letterboxd handles it differently, it displays the earliest listed date regardless of release type.